Good morning, and welcome to College Coffee Talk with your hosts, Pearl and Andy Lockwood. Good morning, Pearl. Good morning, Andy. Hi, everybody. It's been a couple weeks, but we're back on the air. Hope you guys had a nice Memorial Day and a nice stretch of the last 14 days or so. Um, today is going to be a little bit like Pearl story time, which I'm very much looking forward to. We've got a few items that re that you recently uncovered with glitches yet more glitches on published non-discussed FAFSA glitches. And then some recent, I guess, is a client behaviors or. certain things that things to note things to note both good and bad by the way just as almost like a public service announcement for those of us who have kids uh or work with kids I think it's going to be pretty good to go over that stuff too so before we begin a synchronized sip of coffee or whatever it is that you may have one two three good morning cheers um and Pop your comments into the comments section. Let us know that we're coming in loud and clear. And your questions. And your questions and comments. Yeah. All right, Pearl. Start with the latest and not-so-greatest FAFSA glitches which have been frustrating Pearl. One good thing about Pearl is that she doesn't play her cards too close to the vest. Like, when she's frustrated, we know. She doesn't keep things bottled up inside. So only, I don't know, three hours ago maybe? I mean... 10 o'clock now, so this was probably around 5.30, 6. So two and a half hours ago, we were talking about some of these glitches. Four and a half. Well, you were up before me, but we were talking about these around 5.30. No, five hours ago. Okay, five hours ago. All right. So, and then... Past and continued also. And ever since. Yeah, exactly. All right, so start with some of them glitches. Okay, so some of the as recent as just this week with just our clients, and I know this to be so just from the chatter at large, that there are so many glitches with this year's rollout of the newest iteration of the FAFSA. Um, for example, uh, we have a client who is returning as a senior at university of Michigan in Ann Arbor and his FAFSA was kicked back asking for the college campus to be indicated on the FAFSA. Okay. So in case you're like, oh, that seems reasonable. If Michigan has a bunch of campuses, they have one in Flint, they have one in Ann Arbor. Yeah, that's true. Except when you select the school. It actually has Ann Arbor campus in it already. So in this instance, there was no mistake, but it is unfortunately earmarked as a mistake, sent to you, the student, as you have to fix something. So what I've done in this instance is I've provided the FAFSA summary for the client, which states correctly, This is the time and the date that this was submitted. This is the school and its campus. And so there is no issue. And this was a fault of the FAFSA. And so I've since provided this family with the proof. They're going to have to now go back to the financial aid office at the school and show them, hey, this is correct. We got flagged for something not correct. But as you can see, it's correct. So that's one such glitch another such glitch um a fafsa was kicked back again the way what happens is an email is sent either by the school or the department of education you know that that your fafsa requires some you know updating or you know there's a problem or we cannot go forward we can't be processed something like that danger uh danger right um and in this instance it said that the the parents' assets were missing completely. Okay, not to say they were zero. I mean, they were missing entirely. Well, guess what? When you prepare a FAFSA, you cannot submit it without completing all fields, including the parents' assets. In this instance, there was a completely completed FAFSA submitted with assets, et cetera. I was able to pull up a, But somehow in its inner workings, a message was emitted that these assets were missing. Again, it could not have been submitted in the first place had they not been there. But that's another glitch that happened. So we had to literally just resubmit the same thing again so that it just goes through. What do you think is the issue? Do you think it's a coding issue? Yes. Just how it's being downloaded by colleges? Yes, because one overarching, not from our clients specifically, but the chatter I was referring to, a big problem is that in, I don't even want to give a percentage, but a significant percentage of the submitted FAFSAs, the actual submitted information to the IRS is not properly being transferred into the actual fafsa and the bigger issue is that the families who are submitting this information don't see the transmitted income information in the output of the fafsa that they're about to submit it only indicates that in fact you have successfully transferred the submitted information to the irs that has gone into the fafsa but you're not able to see what information in fact was transferred what has happened and the way we've learned about it is some of the schools have received the um they are able to see the submitted information and when these schools are requiring the 2022 tax returns they're seeing big discrepancies and that's how we are learning about these problems so It's really not creating a whole lot of confidence and stability in this year's financial aid workings. But somehow they're going to like band-aid, chewed gum, and shoelace this together to get through this year as best they can. Well, so what you're bringing up, though, is an important point because we're seeing by now almost all the awards have come in, at least for new students, rising freshmen. And then we're starting to get the ones back for returning students. It's not always so easy to tell if they are accurate, what they're based on. So these are just things that you've spotted. But with income in particular, because you can't see what's being imported, you just press a button and then it magically gets transported from the IRS website or database into the Department of Ed database. It seems like there's been a bunch of mistakes already that you've experienced and I've read about a lot. And it's, I guess, the comment on everyone who gets an award back to really... Reverse engineer it. Well, to try to calculate it, if you're familiar with the formulas, which most people aren't, but to get on the phone with the financial aid office and just ask them if it's accurate, if it doesn't seem right. But we've seen adjustments both ways. I mean, we've seen people improve their eligibility after an adjustment, and we've seen it the other way, where people have decreased eligibility after an adjustment by these school financial aid offices. Either way, you've got to be vigilant. Exactly. And then the last little glitch, just again, just this week, just something that truly doesn't make any sense. I have a medical student applicant securing a graduate plus loan. And as part of the putting the plus loan in place, there are two parts. There's an application, a plus loan application, and then the master promissory note, the application. plus loan application in order to complete it, it must go through a credit check of the student borrower. It is impossible, it is impossible to submit a plus loan application without doing that. And then a decision will be rendered. Yes, the credit passes or no, it does not. And then there are other steps you can take. So in this instance, everything had been done, completed, And then this medical student got a notification saying, we're still waiting on the credit approval. It happens instantaneously when the application is being done. And since we were able to provide a completed, submitted plus loan application that was approved, again, it begs the question, what hasn't passed yet it would not have been approved had it not passed plus it's impossible to submit a completed plus application without the credit check so again it just doesn't even make any sense it's just ludicrous have you uh ever seen you've never never seen that message never ever never nor have I ever seen um indicate which campus of michigan you're looking to it's ridiculous so there are just things that are nonsensical that are happening this year in addition to substantive financial information not being correct. Bottom line is you have to be vigilant and don't trust the FAFSA still. Trust but bear by. Don't trust. I'm a little stronger about that. Good morning to Leslie, to Sue, to Chris Couch, to Gary Heller, and Christine. If you have any comments or questions that you want to share, pop them in here we we are happy to to discuss those and try to help you know this is really an opportunity for free coaching you know for anyone who's not a client who wants to just kind of pop in and see you know try to get some help with something this is the best way to do it all right shall we switch to some yeah tales from pearls crypt grab your cookies and milk story time early for cookies okay it's never too early for cookies Never? Sorry. Okay. So I have a couple of tales. My house growing up, it would have been. I will start with an applicant who is at an Ivy League undergraduate institution, and she is planning to go to medical school. She is in her senior year, about to enter her senior year of medical school. Oh, no, no. She's in her senior year of medical school. I'm sorry, of undergraduate. And in applying to medical school, she failed, in my opinion, and I think in a proven opinion here, to cast a wide enough net that she would ensure admission to medical school and start her education, her medical education. So this is not, this is not what I'm trying to come up with like a name for this. Well, this is like what you and I, you and I, first of all, you and I, you just found out about the list of schools she applied that we weren't advising her on this. Had we been, we would have been, we would have said widen the net a little bit. Oh my God. I was shocked. Yeah. This student. Well, maybe she felt like if she wasn't going to get into any of these schools, then she didn't want to go at all. No, she just didn't even consider that one of these schools, having come from an Ivy League, will ever reject her. And I am just making it a little more interesting, I hope. But she, you know, you can't, unfortunately, and I will admit, I had this a little bit too. When I graduated from an Ivy League institution, when I graduated from Cornell, you come off like who the hell you think you are, a little bit, some do. And, you know, I was horrified when I graduated and somebody asked me to take a typing test. I was like, excuse me, I just graduated from Cornell. You're kidding, right? Okay, so I kind of feel like maybe that was a little bit of the attitude she had. To be fair, you're an excellent typist. Thank you, I am. Anyway, so this girl, much to the chagrin of her mother, only applied to the very, very, very top med schools, not even just in the country, just in the state of New York. And she's from New York, did not even apply to like second tier, but fantastic medical schools in the state of New York. And lo and behold, she faced admissions Armageddon. And now, oh, so regrettable, such a regrettable decision and shock and dismay, even though, you know, mother knows mess, there was... no place for mother's opinion here. And had we been included, I would have come down like a ton of bricks saying, you're gonna face admissions Armageddon, maybe. cast a wider net, apply to more. So now, so guess where we are now? Now she has to now take a year of post-baccalaureate classes and now she has to reapply. And I presume she will cast a wider net, but this is so much extra work that she could have been spared. Because listen, you know, you are what you are, what you are. So there was definitely indication and information that she had about where she should have been applying. And she, irrationally ignored it well I think the phenomenon that we witness a lot is is pretty much summed up by this example which is that a lot of kids you know get smoke blowing up their butts and think that you know they're you know what that doesn't sink right and that might be true in a very in a very narrow sort of universe of competition like your high school or your peer group or something but they lack perspective about the The true competition that's out there nationally and actually globally so I think the message That I would I would want people to receive is to get that reality check sooner rather than later even if it's the inconvenient truth because You know the situation that pearl described could have been very easily avoided. Yeah, that's true Okay Story number two. So this is called Mountain Out of a Molehill. In this instance, the student needed to access his specific school portal for the school that he's planning to attend. And in order to send or get a code, and it's time sensitive and back and forth anyway, This student and I had a scheduled appointment for 6 p.m. on a Friday where it was to take about a moment. It doesn't even matter. We had an appointment. We had an appointment. A student had an appointment with a grown-up. Let's just leave it there. I'm sorry. Let me just cut in here just for a second. Okay. We should do something really mean, you know, is basically the kid couldn't figure out how to log into his portal. Right. I mean, that's a problem that people our age might have, you know, but kids know how to do this stuff. Well, if they don't, they need to learn because they're going to college next year and that's going to be expected of you. Right. This is how the information is going to be conveyed about classes, about when your deposits are due, about when you have to get into the dorm, all these other key, key things. So you, in my opinion, went above and beyond and said, you know what, let's just get on a call or a zoom or whatever at the same time and I'll help you do it right and that call was scheduled for well we couldn't whatever six o'clock on a friday night 6 o'clock came and the arrangement was he was going to text me at 6 and we were going to go from there. By the way, don't ever request an appointment with her at 6 p.m. on a Friday night. She doesn't do that normally. That's ridiculous. That's happy hour. It is, but it was going to be an inconsequential two minutes. He gets a code and I get the code and we were going to be finished. I didn't mean to interrupt. I'm shocked. I'm still shocked that you agreed to it. Anyhow. He's on the West Coast, right? So, yeah. So, 6 o'clock, 7 o'clock, 8 o'clock. You're 9-9. 8.30 p.m. on a Friday night, this student texted me, I'm ready. I'm ready now. Okay. Get back in your crib. Who do you think you are? Okay. Don't be entitled. Don't let your kids be entitled. It is a turnoff to who? I know, who am I? I'm irrelevant. Well, except that I am here to, I need, you need something from me. I don't need something from you. I'm here to help you as many people in the world and in life will be out there to help you. And if you don't show and give proper respect to another person, don't expect that help to come very easily. It is not a good look. It was such a minor thing, but the level of entitlement that showed through with that at 8.30, two and a half hours after our appointment where I'm obliging him and this issue had been continuing and continuing. This kid, oh, I'm ready. I'm done. Okay, you're on the toilet. You need to be wiped because you're two and you're toilet draining. I think I've made my point. You certainly made a point, and it's not a small thing. It's a big thing. I think all of our kids need to understand that when someone is in a position to help, or even if they're not, you need to be a little bit more respectful. Just to round out this story, his mom ripped him a new one. Yes, and I did feel a little bit. It wasn't for a parent. No, it wasn't. She was horrified, and I felt bad. So why that call? Because she didn't. I don't want to cut into your stories here, but this is along these lines. I had a Zoom with a client and his parent the other day, and they popped on my screen. Oh, my God. And the kid had his shirt off. It's not cute. At least the mom had clothes. Not cute. But I'm like, first of all, I'm still a little speechless, which is saying something because that's not usually my thing. But my comment was, I didn't realize this was a shirt optional meeting. And he said, oh, yeah, you know, you can never wear a shirt around. I'm like, well, can you put on a shirt? You know, this is a meeting. And the mom's like, yeah, you know, I told him to. But it's the same thing. It's a cluelessness and a lack of respecting. He didn't mean it in a disrespectful way. But it is. But it's like if you have a meeting with an adult, you know. Look it. Look it. Please wear your shirt. That's my message. Get out of 2024, go back a couple of decades and do what they did. I don't need black tie. I just need normal covering. Okay. And then you can't completely, here's another tale. You can't completely lose your sense of how things work and rationality when you are doing this process. For example, I had a family continually telling me, They're not the school that the student had decided on. They're not giving him anything. They're not giving him any money. They're not giving, they didn't make any offer. No. We had a conversation. They're not giving him anything. Yeah. The admissions officer or the financial aid officer said he's not, he's not going to qualify for anything. Right. Okay. And so I want to appeal. So I want to appeal. So I want to appeal. Okay, fine. Well, we can appeal. But until we have something in writing that actually shows what they are giving or not giving, what is it that we're appealing? If they just say, let's just say the actual board came in and they gave a full, full right. What would you have been appealing before you received that? Well, the thing is, before we do any type of negotiation or appeal for more money, the first step is let me see what they offered you in writing. and it's kind of hard to move forward. Right, what are you appealing? Anyway, so in this instance, it was just hysteria, hysteria, and I had repeatedly asked, is there an award letter yet? Have you logged into the portal, the student's portal? Another login issue. Right. By the time we, then I was given bad login information, and then by the time we logged in, they had never logged in. So there they, the school, what was in their court? The school was still waiting for things. So you have- Like what, like a W-2 or something? Like the tax return, like the W-2, like everything to confirm what was in the financial aid applications so that they can render a financial aid award, which they did and which does need to be appealed anyway. But they just didn't have the order right. Like you can't just say, sky's falling, sky's falling. You have to be a little bit diligent on your end. And when I was repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, have you logged in? Have you seen the award yet? What do you mean they're just telling you on the phone that you're not getting anything? That doesn't make sense. That's not how this works. Okay. Anyway. It's also someone who had an older child who we worked with too, but she controlled everything. the child. The oldest sibling. Yeah. Yeah, but it's, you know, I think this is also a situation where this was a college that they ended up applying to after they gave you the initial list of colleges. Never told me about it. And we have, you know, a procedure where you got to tell us, you know, we have a sheet. In writing. Just the way the high schools all have a sheet, like a blue sheet or something, where you're supposed to give them, like, you know, the list of schools for them to send transcripts to. We have the equivalent in our practice to make sure that we send out all the financial aid applications. So I think she followed that for the initial batch. And that's what usually happens. And then failed to do so for the next round of panic applications, I guess. So she ended up not getting an award because it was never filed. That was the first sky's falling moment. So it's just been sort of a calamity of events. Right. One after another. For no reason. Right. All of this could have been completely avoided. And they are eligible for aid. Yes, they are. So the question is not, like she said, that they're not eligible. That was what she repeated supposedly from the financial aid office. They're definitely eligible, but they were late. Which they haven't said. The school has not pointed to that yet. And I am hopeful, I just feel like I say this, I am hopeful that they will not hold them accountable for the lateness given all of the FAFSA errors this year and delays and problems. So I do, I am hopeful that that will not be an issue for them. And they're not going to run out of money either. It's a school that's fairly judged. Yeah. Anyway, I'm going to end with a happier tale. My last tale of the day. Um, and the theme of this is it is not where you start. It's where you finish. And in this instance, we had a student who was a COVID casualty, as I like to call class of 2020. No, he didn't die. Oh God, you're right. I'm sorry. I shouldn't say that. All right. Um, in that, in that he, he got a little off track in the end of his high school career where he was applying for Ivy League type schools. He was that type of student and got thrown off by the homeschooling situation and did not have a robust end to his college career. High school. High school, sorry. High school career. Was not able to apply as he had hoped to the schools that he felt he wanted to go to. This student ultimately wanted to be in the financial services market business etc and Was feeling like perhaps he needed that IV or IV type background in order to secure position in these elite financial institutions and He was very disappointed had tough time ended up going to CUNY to Baruch and and took us in his seat, his nose to the ground stone, and just worked hard, worked really hard, kicked butt. P.S., I'm so happy to share that he now has a job offer at Goldman Sachs, which is what he wanted from the beginning, and he got there anyway through a different route. So it's not where you start, it's where you finish. And it is, and the takeaway here, how hard are you willing to work and produce for your dreams and goals? And we hear, by the way, we see stuff like that a lot, not always with students that we know, but also with their parents. We see their educational backgrounds and their station in life. And it's pretty common knowledge within Wall Street, for example, that some firms will either completely turn their backs on Ivy League grads because they feel like they're not really getting people with work ethics more titled, especially given this past year. I think that's going to be a big trend. And some, Goldman's not one of them, but the Goldman also is smart enough to recruit out of the barooks of the world as well because they're looking for the kid with that hustle and drive and that immigrant mentality. I don't think he's an immigrant, but there were firms that were famous for that, like Bear Stearns, which is now unfortunately belly up for a few years, but they were not very specifically to prefer the gritty city kid who went to a blue blood, Mayflower family type people who went to Ivy League schools. Like my first story, who think a little too much for themselves and maybe are not as coachable, perhaps. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if that comes through in a medical school application or not. We can certainly speculate. But the point is, like Pearl said, it's like you can start somewhere, but just because you start somewhere doesn't mean the rest of your life is set. And if you don't get into your top choice school, that's sort of the flip side of this, and you end up going to a quote unquote lesser school, maybe it's a big public university, maybe it's like a Penn State instead of a UC Berkeley or something. But if you kick butt and you take all the appropriate actions like pursuing internships and all those types of things and build your network and develop your own brand, you'll end up where you should be. It may not be right out of college, but it could be. And some, you know, I think we talked about this before. I think in general, the big companies that are owned by Europeans tend to be fixated more on the IV credential. But the HR people and the recruiting people who work for these firms, whether they're European or non-European owned, they're very well aware of this dynamic that we're describing. You might do a lot better getting a kid from a non-elite school. the takeaway is it's what, what do you do with your bout of adversity? Do you use it to motivate yourself to produce and go further and, and tell the naysayers, no way, you're not keeping me down. I'll show you. Or, or are you going to be beaten by your adversity? Well, it's not, it's not the worst thing in the world to go into college with a little chip on your shoulder. As long as you use it to motivate yourself. That's what I mean. Yeah, absolutely. All right, good. All right, so I think we're going to wrap up here. I see some more comments from Gary. Hello, Sarah. Hello to Flavia, Oriana, Salvatore, Melissa. Welcome back. All right, it's good to be back. So we're going to call it a wrap for this week. We will be back next week, same time, same bat channel, 10 a.m. on our Facebook page right here, facebook.com slash Lockwood College Prep. And this also ends up on our YouTube channel. And most of the time on our podcast, College Planning Edge, which has been around a really long time, that podcast. Really? Yeah. I'll show you the stats. It's kind of crazy. But anywhere you can find us, pretty much, that's what we're trying to do, to help give this information out and share our thoughts. And we welcome yours. So please drop a comment in. And thanks a lot for being with us this week. Talk to you next week.
